Concerns with weapon specifics...

[HEXTZ]

i wouldn't like to see any weapon be superseded by another.

That will happen. Without location damage, pistols will be ALWAYS useless agaisn't an SMG, for example...

Not entirely true, skill is a major factor in this game, so a pistol can be used against an opponent using an smg hell even a rifle if your good enough.

[Grocerybag]

i wouldn't like to see any weapon be superseded by another.

That will happen. Without location damage, pistols will be ALWAYS useless agaisn't an SMG, for example...

Not entirely true, skill is a major factor in this game, so a pistol can be used against an opponent using an smg hell even a rifle if your good enough.

Somehow I doubt that. The only games where pistols can beat any other gun really is when there is location damage. Since I'm guessing there isn't going to be any pistol that is more powerful than a *medium* damage smg or assault rifle, chances are that the assault rifle will be able to pop off more rounds than the pistol, so it would do more damage than the pistol, and it would also be faster than the pistol.

[Hedger]

i wouldn't like to see any weapon be superseded by another.

That will happen. Without location damage, pistols will be ALWAYS useless agaisn't an SMG, for example...

and you did not read the thread...

if the damage per round for pistols is set higher then the damage per round for SMGs, but the rate of fire for SMG's is higher then rate of fire for pistols (obviously) then you have a nice situation where pistols and SMG's deal the same damage per second, but play completely different.

[Krieg Jaeger]

i wouldn't like to see any weapon be superseded by another.

That will happen. Without location damage, pistols will be ALWAYS useless agaisn't an SMG, for example...

and you did not read the thread...

if the damage per round for pistols is set higher then the damage per round for SMGs, but the rate of fire for SMG's is higher then rate of fire for pistols (obviously) then you have a nice situation where pistols and SMG's deal the same damage per second, but play completely different.

Zing.

Sometimes it's all too obvious who reads the thread and who does not.

[Fat Corgi]

I simply don't understand the logic that having area damage would prevent superceding weapons. I've never seen a game except for perhaps team fortress and dystopia (a source mod) where there was a place and time for all weapons. It certainly wasn't the presence of area damage that caused this (dystopia has headshots, team fortress does not have area damage with a few exceptions) but whether the designers wanted the weapon options to be balanced.

In many games, pistols are not meant to be considerations for a primary weapon. They are used solely as secondaries in case you run out of ammo on primary, or when your primary has a blaring weakness such as a sniper at short range or an SMG at long range.

That said, it is totally within the power of the designer to take it either direction. Given the style of the game, I would be extremely unsurprised of dual wielding pistols was a viable weapon loadout. (even though anyone who has fired a gun knows that guns akimbo is silly) It is totally within reason for the designers to design magnum pistols to have higher calibre bullets than SMGs with further effective range. I'm certainly not a gun expert, but don't some hunting pistols have higher calibre bullets than many automatic weapons? Either way, don't the designers have some leeway as designers of a fictional work?

[interim]

Personally I enjoy games where pistols can be used as a primary weapon.

[Tal-N]

Ammo is again the defining factor here and as mentioned TF2 has a clue to that. In TF2 the high damage weapons are very limited on how much ammo you can carry around, therefore requiring frequent trips to ammo points. Now in APB, you don't get more ammo from the body of someone you just defeated and in fact you need to keep additional ammo in your vehicle. So at the end of the day, you may be running around with an ak-47 but due to the rate at which it uses up ammunition you may find that it is better to use a handgun which just requires more of a careful aim but doesn't run out of ammo every 5 minutes.

[AVasquez]

I would say that it's simple.. the weapons should be balanced a bit - however, no pistol should ever be as useful as a rifle.

I think the usefulness of pistols will be balanced when they implement dual-wielding. Thus - pistols aren't a problem. Shotguns should do lots of damage up close, and very little at a distance. I'm fine with this mechanic - it's how most shooters work.

Considering that you have to buy all your ammunition, i'm hoping that explosives are going to be expensive - thus keeping you from wanting to spam them all the time. Also - i'm hoping there will be friendly fire damage for explosives.

[Krieg Jaeger]

I would say that it's simple.. the weapons should be balanced a bit - however, no pistol should ever be as useful as a rifle.

I think the usefulness of pistols will be balanced when they implement dual-wielding. Thus - pistols aren't a problem. Shotguns should do lots of damage up close, and very little at a distance. I'm fine with this mechanic - it's how most shooters work.

Considering that you have to buy all your ammunition, i'm hoping that explosives are going to be expensive - thus keeping you from wanting to spam them all the time. Also - i'm hoping there will be friendly fire damage for explosives.

As for the first bit, lieeessss. Aside from anti-vehicle weapons like the 50. cal rifles, most assault rifles are around 5.56 or 7.62. Both are certainly large and powerful but like I stated, suffer from overpenatration in close quarters. Pistols are far more useful as CQC weapons considering the ease maneuvering and aiming while moving in tight confines, good rate of fire and low recoil (depending on the round).
There are also a plethora of calibers available to pistols ranging from 22. (known as the assassin bullet. It has enough strength to puncture the skull going in, but not out. So it ricochets around INSIDE the skull, causing about as much damage as a 45. Now couple that with extreme accuracy, negligable recoil and virtually silent with a supressor...)
To the 50. (Considered more of a showpiece due to extreme recoil and low ammo capacity, it none-the-less is extremely potent. Capable of blowing chunks or limbs off a person). and everything in between.

A more recently developed round (also used in the P90 and MP7) is the 5.7 with a pistol of the same name, firing the same round. It is actually a low velocity round that penetrates (light?) body armor. Very expensive and specialized. Police and military only.

Some revolvers, like the BFR, have interchangeable chambers, which are able to house virtually every caliber pistol round, and even 22 gauge shotgun rounds. Revolvers are often used in conjunction with scopes (More than any other pistol) due to comparative accuracy and how the weapon (usually higher caliber) forces the user to pick his or her shots.

Hell, there are even a few pistols that have extended barrels and buttstocks that are carbine versions. The luger carbine for instance, is one of the most sought after antique guns.

So do not tell me sir, that pistols are useless or less useful than a rifle aside from when used akimbo.

[Exiled]

I agree with this. Hopefully they sell different bullet types and that makes the difference in power of a weapon.

[AVasquez]

I would say that it's simple.. the weapons should be balanced a bit - however, no pistol should ever be as useful as a rifle.

I think the usefulness of pistols will be balanced when they implement dual-wielding. Thus - pistols aren't a problem. Shotguns should do lots of damage up close, and very little at a distance. I'm fine with this mechanic - it's how most shooters work.

Considering that you have to buy all your ammunition, i'm hoping that explosives are going to be expensive - thus keeping you from wanting to spam them all the time. Also - i'm hoping there will be friendly fire damage for explosives.

As for the first bit, lieeessss. Aside from anti-vehicle weapons like the 50. cal rifles, most assault rifles are around 5.56 or 7.62. Both are certainly large and powerful but like I stated, suffer from overpenatration in close quarters. Pistols are far more useful as CQC weapons considering the ease maneuvering and aiming while moving in tight confines, good rate of fire and low recoil (depending on the round).
There are also a plethora of calibers available to pistols ranging from 22. (known as the assassin bullet. It has enough strength to puncture the skull going in, but not out. So it ricochets around INSIDE the skull, causing about as much damage as a 45. Now couple that with extreme accuracy, negligable recoil and virtually silent with a supressor...)
To the 50. (Considered more of a showpiece due to extreme recoil and low ammo capacity, it none-the-less is extremely potent. Capable of blowing chunks or limbs off a person). and everything in between.

A more recently developed round (also used in the P90 and MP7) is the 5.7 with a pistol of the same name, firing the same round. It is actually a low velocity round that penetrates (light?) body armor. Very expensive and specialized. Police and military only.

Some revolvers, like the BFR, have interchangeable chambers, which are able to house virtually every caliber pistol round, and even 22 gauge shotgun rounds. Revolvers are often used in conjunction with scopes (More than any other pistol) due to comparative accuracy and how the weapon (usually higher caliber) forces the user to pick his or her shots.

Hell, there are even a few pistols that have extended barrels and buttstocks that are carbine versions. The luger carbine for instance, is one of the most sought after antique guns.

So do not tell me sir, that pistols are useless or less useful than a rifle aside from when used akimbo.

What I meant was that "in general" no pistol should be as powerful in game as a rifle. This isn't a realistic FPS, they can't bog the game down with all the little details for various weapons. Thus - they have to generalize to a certain degree. And in this generalization - the majority of pistols (particularly those that will be more easily available to criminal-types) would not be as powerful. If you want to get into every little detail, most of the more powerful pistols that might be able to stand up to a rifle will have more recoil and thus shoot more slowly - still making them potentially less useful.

A pistol ought to have better accuracy at close range, i'll give you that - but again, it's another nuance that would be difficult to program into the game. How many games have you seen when pistols actually have a varying accuracy factor dependant upon range? Not a whole lot of them. In fact, in most shooters - pistols are hardly more than worthless.

Sure, I think they should have a few instances of more powerful pistols that can do just as much damage as a rifle - only without the range element. I think the other way that they'll balance pistols is to implement dual wielding for the lighter pistols. I would also hope that they'll balance rifles by making less accurate while moving, etc - thus giving pistols a purpose in the game.

But I still say that (in general) a pistol should not be as powerful as a rifle. My use of "useful" wasn't entire accurate, as I meant to address the weapon's power.

[interim]

Pistols do have the ability to be more devastating than a rifle at short range, that's the point. Rifles aren't meant to be a short-range weapon, as they usually have supersonic ammunition. At short range ammunition like this tends to penetrate the target completely doing little to no concussive or severe tissue damage. A bullet that goes straight through a non-vital part of a target is like a bee-sting when you are on an adrenaline high. Why do you think they make subsonic sniper rounds? Short range, pinpoint accuracy with severe concussive force. This increases the soft tissue damage to the target (large round, moving fast enough to impale but not fast enough to penetrate completely), transferring the force of the bullet completely onto the target.

Quick example: One round from a .44 magnum at short range vs. one round from a .223 at short range... which is more devastating?

Exactly.

[Tal-N]

There is the possibility that they could attach particular status effects or secondary effects to weapons and even certain ammunition. As the last person said, the purpose for the bullet hitting something or someone can differ and likewise the effect of that impact can be changed according to the ammo used.

Things such as concussive bullets can cause a drop in someones accuracy, resulting the game making the firing cone of the weapon you are using larger. So even if you aim straight the bullets go at wide angles. Or even causing someone to be knocked down from the force of the hit. Or slowed. Incendiary bullets causing a DoT? They could level the playing field between weapons without breaking the realism by allowing pistols to be able to use the widest variety of customized ammo while the more powerful rifles are more limited to just doing damage. A case of flexability vs speciality.

[interim]

Not gonna happen. This is just proselytizing. Bullets will just do -X HP, and that's it. We all know it. Let's not pretend this is going mega in-depth.

[Krieg Jaeger]

Not gonna happen. This is just proselytizing. Bullets will just do -X HP, and that's it. We all know it. Let's not pretend this is going mega in-depth.

Well I'm sorry, I had no idea you were on the development team. Please sir, in detail explain precisely how with no range modifications or limitations the ballistics will be handled in game.

I doubt they will have any sort of incredibly complex system, but even global agenda with it's relatively simply ballistics system has effective, and max ranges. I don't see why a similar system couldn't be implemented here.

p.s.
The system works in that if you are within max range, but not effective the reticule is yellow, and you only do minor damage. If you are in effective range, the reticule is red and you do full damage. Simply reverse the range for long range weapons (sniper rifles, assault rifles) to make it so they have a "within max, but not effective" range until X amount of meters.

Ie, until they get away 50 meters or max out at 500 they are only within "Max range" or "Ineffective range" as opposed to "effective range".